Pennsylvania's Pale Divine have been knocking out killer doom metal for over a decade. I recently had the chance to interview drummer Darin McCloskey and guitarist/vocalist Greg Diener.
Interview with Greg and Darin of Pale Divine done by Metal Mark 6/2008.
So what are you currently up to?
Greg: Lately we have been playing a lot of local shows. Nothing major, just bars in our area. This is something we have never really done before; we have played around here before, but never enough to create any kind of local following. Our focus has always been on songwriting rather than playing live.
Darin: Playing live locally is something, believe it or not, we never really focused on. We'd usually travel hundreds of miles to play "Doom metal" shows and festivals. The problem with that is you're really just "preaching to the choir" which is to say that by always playing to the same type of audience as a band we're not really reaching out to anyone else...which is doing ourselves a disservice. Not that we don't appreciate the die-hard Doom metal heads - we do, they'll always be number one...we'd just like to hopefully turn other people on to what we do...hopefully even attract more people to the genre in the process. So, this past year or so we've really focused on playing locally and hooking up with other bands in the area - not necessarily "doom" bands but just metal bands in general. It's been fun but basically come July it's back to the grindstone to finish writing album four.
You have a few dates lined up in the Mid-Atlantic area for the spring. Do you have a summer tour in the works?
Greg: Not really. It would be nice to hit the road for a couple of weeks, but unfortunately anything longer than a weekend trip isn't in the cards for now.
Darin: We were REALLY close to going back to Europe this year but Greg's getting married in Sept. and with the US economy in shambles right now we just can't afford it. Next year I think we're going to hit the road pretty hard. Things seem to be gradually working up to that. Once the next CD is released we definitely intend to tour as extensively as humanly possible for us...it's been a while and we're VERY ready.
How do you think your Cemetery Earth album compares with your previous efforts?
Greg: A bit more centered a little less jammy. A lot more Metal!
Darin: Yeah, I agree that it's more focused. A lot less jammed out. Production is a lot cleaner and it just sounds like a very decisive record...a lot of people have picked up on that and have asked us why we did this "style shift" which kinda makes me laugh. We're really not doing anything that different from the previous albums stylistically the music is the same. The difference was really just in the production and trimming off some of the fat - so to speak, simple as that. Having said that...it's my favorite album so far.
How do you think the doom scene has changed over the last decade? Where do you think the scene is heading?
Darin: Oh, I think there's a lot more so-called Doom Metal bands cropping up all the time...not what I consider Doom Metal mind you but stuff being identified as such by the press and the misguided, ill informed "scenesters" of the world. The Sludge-core shit is being passed off as Doom Metal more and more and it's unfortunately what people are starting to recognize as Doom Metal. People also consider Ambient or Drone stuff like Earth and Sunn o))) as Doom Metal which is equally ridiculous. The scene is heading straight to the shitter if you ask me....full throttle, pedal to the metal straight into the shitter. Bands people should pay attention to that are REAL Doom Metal are Orodruin, The Gates of Slumber and Apostle of Solitude - to name a few....when bands like these start appearing in major publications and getting the credit they deserve then I'll say the scene is thriving. Right now though...it's not going anywhere. Sometimes the labels of doom and stoner are separate and some times a band gets both labels.
The stoner scene seems to have become a bit more popular this decade while the doom scene seems to have stayed about the same. Do you agree with that or not?
Greg: It's all the same to me. We have always rode the fence between Doom and Stoner and incorporated both styles in our music. We never really seemed to get more attention from one side or the other until recently with our new album leaning strongly toward the doom side of things.
Darin: It's not the same to me at all...in fact I would consider us a "traditional" doom metal band without hesitation because we follow the same path as our predecessors Trouble, The Obsessed, Candlemass, Saint Vitus, Pentagram, Witchfinder General etc. not Kyuss, Monster Magnet, Queens of the Stone Age or any of those bands that would be considered "stoner rock". In the past we've been lumped in with the so-called "stoner rock" scene because we have a very 70's proto-metal influence which a lot of the "stoners" like so we've been lumped in with that scene a little bit and we've been on some of their comps. And took part in some of their fests. We've never really reaped the benefits associated with either side though...I think we must be too ambiguous to a lot of people and people can't embrace something they can't absolutely define with the criteria their websites and trendy magazines dictate to them. Anyway, to answer your question...I think traditional doom metal has always been the underdog and few people even recognize it as Doom. So...you have the Doom Death, Sludge, Drone and Gothic Doom stuff qualifying as Doom to a lot of people...and all that stuff has far exceeded "stoner rock" in recent years by leaps and bounds. In fact it seems the more "extreme" the music the more popular it is..."stoner rock" isn't extreme, it's very laid back so the kids aren't challenged by it - kids like to be challenged you know...it's got to be bad ass, not necessarily "good" just something they can tell their friends they're into to hopefully elicit oooohhs and aaahhhs..
Do you see yourselves as strictly a doom band or how would you categorize your music? Or do you find that too limiting to categorize or slap a label on your music?
Greg: We play Metal! Fast and slow, clean and dirty, thrashin' and groovin'. Always loud and always heavy, with feeling!
Darin: Sure, why not. At the end of the day it's really just Heavy Metal right?
Greg: Glen Where?
What were some of the first albums that you really got into?
Greg: Ozzy Osbourne - Diary of a Madman, Black Sabbath - The first seven albums, Pentagram - Day of Reckoning / Relentless
Darin: Pretty much the same here...Ozzy Osbourne - Blizzard of Ozz/Diary of a Madman, Black Sabbath - everything but especially Paranoid, Vol. 4, Sabbath Bloody Sabbath and Heaven and Hell,Deep Purple - Machine Head,Rainbow - Long Live Rock and Roll
What bands are you currently listening to?
Greg: See above list.
Darin: Grand Magus, The Gates of Slumber, Candlemass and lots of Black Sabbath...as always.
Are there any bands that have popped up in this decade that have had any influence on your music?
Greg: Not Really. Their has been a lot of great music, but nothing out of the ordinary. Everything we play and everything I listen to is inspired by the greats. Like Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, and Iron Maiden. I hear these influences in all of the music I enjoy.
Where do you get the inspiration for your song topics?
Greg: Life in general I suppose. Most of our lyrics are observational, based on what we see when we take a step back and look at the world around us.
Darin: Yeah, life provides pretty good inspiration...light and dark - good and evil...it's all around us. In the past some of the lyrics I wrote were fantasy based to more or less expand on the mood or feel of the music. For the second album I focused more on the concept of human spirituality (which I sort of touched on briefly on the first album as well) because I find it really fascinating subject matter. It was after that people started asking us if we were a "Christian band" based on I guess their interpretation of the lyrics. It's kind of cool in a way (though to set the record straight NO we're not a Christian band) because obviously people were paying just as much attention to the lyrics as they were the music...that's a pretty cool thing I think that doesn't happen often enough in this genre of music.
What is Pale Divine doing that sets you apart from your peers?
Darin: Oh, I don't know...we never set out to try to re-invent the wheel just play the style of music we love. If we do anything different from our peers I guess it's that we don't always do the slow tempo thing. I don't think Doom metal has to always be defined by tempo. Pentagram and Trouble proved that 20 years ago. Those two bands are undisputedly Doom Metal yet they've always incorporated various tempos...effectively. We follow that school of thought I think probably more than a lot of our peers.
Since you had this band for a fairly long time, is it ever difficult to push forward and progress with your music? How do you avoid getting in a musical rut? Is there a decision to really push ahead or are you guys familiar enough with each others style that it just happens?
Darin: Sometimes we get a little creatively blocked...it happens. You just have to take a step back and try not to force something because when you do that it's almost always going to suck. Inspiration comes when it comes..luckily so far it hasn't taken long for it to happen. Also sometimes just one fresh idea will inspire several others...it's really just dependent on your mindset I guess.
Greg: It's comes together pretty naturally for us, most of the time. We are very comfortable with each others style, and like to relax and let the songs fall into place rather than force something that might not “feel right”. If we start to get into a “rut” we normally put it aside for a while till we find the missing piece. We're not in any rush.
You played the Doom or be doomed festival in Baltimore last year which had a huge line-up of bands including a number of acts doing reunion shows. What was that event like?
Darin: In a word "Killer!" Probably the best fest of it's kind. Great bands and great people...those two factors created the best possible atmosphere any festival of that kind could hope to have. This year there's a mini follow-up to it called "The Declaration of Doom" and we'll be participating in that as well.
Pick the band from the following pair that you prefer and tell why you picked them.
Cirith Ungol or Trouble
Darin: Ouch! Well, since I'm in a band with former Cirith Ungol founder Greg Lindstrom (Falcon) I'm pretty much obligated to say Cirith Ungol but realistically the two are miles apart from one another.
Greg: Can't Decide. I would have never thought to compare them side by side. I consider them to be worlds apart and I love them both.
Candlemass or Celtic Frost
Greg: I would have to give Candlemass my vote here, only because I'm not as familiar with Celtic Frost's Catalog.
Darin: That's absurd. Sorry....no comment.
Saint Vitus or Witchfinder General
Greg: Like apples and oranges my friend. But I suppose S.V. Comes through my stereo a little more frequently.
Darin: Love 'em both...
Black Sabbath or Pentagram
Greg: This is an impossible question. It's like asking who you love more, your mother or your father. Even if I had an answer, to speak it would be unthinkable.
Darin: Just about anything and everything is going to come after Black Sabbath. There wouldn't be a Pentagram if it weren't for Black Sabbath.
Is there anything else that you want to say about your band or your music?
Just thanks for the interview...please check us out on the web:
http://www.paledivine.com/
http://www.myspace.com/paledivine
DOOM OR BE DOOMED!!!!!!!!
***Thanks to Greg and Darin for doing the interview.
these guys kick ass definitely!
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