Wednesday, December 13, 2006

Jump the shark?

I originally wasn't going to post today, but then an idea came to me. I was wondering about what would be a good hard rock/metal equivalent of the term "Jump the shark?". Just in case you are not a big fan of old TV, here is the definition of the term straight from the jump the shark site.

Q. What is jumping the shark?
A. It's a moment. A defining moment when you know that your favorite television program has reached its peak. That instant that you know from now's all downhill. Some call it the climax. We call it "Jumping the Shark." From that moment on, the program will simply never be the same.
Of course this term is a reference to Happy Days from when the Fonz literally jumped the shark on water skiis. Okay, so what would be a good hard rock/metal term that would be equivalent of this? One that would refer to a band's turn from greatness to something less.
I would think it would be something where the band changed for good and never approached the same level of greatness. So something like Judas Priest doing Turbo wouldn't really count because the band did later rebound with Painkiller at least. I immediately think of Van Halen and when Roth was gone form the band. That was a change that effected the band and to me they never did a great album after that. So could "Firing Diamond Dave"? be a term to use.
The other band that comes to my mind is AC/DC. I think they were great with Bon Scott and to me never did a great album after his death. Yes, I know the rest of the world loves Back in black. I would just hate to use a term that would refer to Bon's death, although I think it was a moment that completely altered the band's future.
Anyway, put your thinking caps on and let me know any terms you come up with. If you have a good one and don't mind me using it then I will pick the best phrase and use it for a blog topic that I may write in the next few days.


Anonymous Anonymous said...

Iron Maiden did a reverse jump with Dance of Death.

Priest jumped at Turbo, and while they have released a good record or two since, they never regained their form.

Savatage jumped when they wrote "rock operas" instead of metal albums.

6:03 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I might catch some flack for this, but I truly believe that after Motley Crue put out "Theatre of Pain" things were never as cool in the Crue world. From that day forward I always thought that they were trying to play catch-up with the rest of the rock world and conforming to whatever style was currently in vogue.

"Too Fast For Love" and "Shout at the Devil" were amazing...

Although they obviously have managed to retain millions and millions of fans...and have had great financial success, for me they were never the same band. I love 'em still, but dream that someday they can recreate the kick assery that was found on Shout at the Devil.

7:06 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

May I add another?

WASP...when they released "First Blood...Last Cuts"...Was there really a need for a "Best of..." CD?

Previously to that, they had 5 GREAT albums and 1 decent album (I thought Headless Children was OK).

They've had some OK records since then, but nothing as magical as the first 6.

Down with "Best of..." albums! They are evil and should live only in the world of Country music.

7:11 AM  
Anonymous Bruce said...

Am I the only AC/DC fan that likes Brian Johnson more than Bon Scott? The band is all about Angus anyway, IMO...

Re: Van Halen- DLR once said the inclusion of keyboards was one of the reasons he left, so it seems that they may have just started to jump the shark with "1984".
Frankly, almost every band that's been around for any length of time jumps their own shark eventually, don't you think? It's just the nature of the business.

8:16 AM  
Blogger Nonny said...

I also thought of Van Halen as a euphamism for "Jumping the shark", something like "Pulled a Hagar"

In response to RockDogs comment regarding Motley Crue, well I mostly agree with what he said, I will say that there are some good songs on "Girls, Girls, Girls" but after that album they really lost me. "Dr. Feelgood" sucked ass and I never listened or bought another Crue album after that.

8:17 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Marc, sorry about being off topic, but the only thing that beta does that is negative is erase half the links to peoples comments. Beside that, beta seems to be far more superior.

8:32 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mark, sorry about that.

8:34 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

AC/DC jumped the shark when they decided they should try to write music. ;)


8:36 AM  
Blogger Metal Mark said...

t-bone-Savatage could play, but there were always a little dry to me.

rockdog-I thought Theatre of pain was average, but certainly a drop off from the first two. I hated Girls, girls, girls though.
I think a lot of times that the record companies decided when to release best of albums rather than the bands. However way too many bands release these and one should be enough.

Bruce-I would guess it's about half and half as to who prefers which AC/DC singer. I liked Bon's voice and thought they lost a lot of the fun sound when he died.

nonny-I am beginning to think Van Halen might be the prime example.

Captain Corky-All of a sudden I can't comment on your blog and a few others because of Beta. I just tried to switch my blog and it said that I could not due to size, but they were working on it. I do have over 500 posts and most of them over the last year have a few to some comments on them.

Steven-Oh, come on. Although I know of another poster who would share your opinion if he shows up today.

8:51 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Motley Crue entered suckdom with Theatre of Pain.

Def Leppard took a dive into the great brown nothingness with Hysteria.

Ratt with Dancing Undercover.

Queensryche with Promised Land.

If Van Halen didn't do it when they hired Sammy Hagar, they definitely did it with that stupid on-again-off-again stunt with DLR in the mid-90s.

I almost said Judas Priest and Maiden, but they got their acts back together and got it right.

Now, an interesting topic for discussion would be what makes good bands blow it after they get on top.

11:34 AM  
Blogger Mike said...

How about when Metallica shot their "Load" when they released the album after the "black album".

1:25 PM  
Blogger BeckEye said...

Instead of "you've jumped the shark," you could say, "you've been thunderstruck."

1:35 PM  
Blogger OnMyWatch said...

I guess for AC/DC their shark phrase could be something like, "blowing their circuit" - I'll have to give more thought to the VH one.

2:15 PM  
Blogger :P fuzzbox said...

I am with you and those that was not impressed with Van Hagar. I would have to say that they 'dusted the Dave.'

6:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This may be blasphemous but the term "Took off the makeup" in refrence to Kiss. I mean they had some good stuff after the makeup but nothing compared to with the makeup.

As for the Motley Crue comments agreed. Although the opening riff of Wildside still to this day rocks.

6:37 PM  
Blogger Metal Mark said...

Earl- I agree 100% about Def Leppard. Although maybe "Pour some sugar on me" would be a better term than Hysteria for how they tanked what had been a great career up until then.

Mike-I actually like Load and Re-load and have problems with the black album.

Beckeye-That's not bad, but I think AC/DC were long gone before that.

Onmywatch-Blow up your video is easily their worst album.

fuzz-It was like all the fun poured out of Van Halen after Dave left. With Dave it was like a party and without him it just became another band.

KJR-I kind of see what you are saying, but I think that Unmasked and the Elder are two of their three worst albums. Both came out while still in make-up.

One I forgot is Black Sabbath's Technical Ecstacy. It was the end of a great run. The albums later on with Dio were cool, but a way different style. Led Zeppelin's Precense is another one.It's not exactly bad, but it's when Zeppelin started to sound like mortals instead of gods.

8:16 PM  
Blogger DPTH International said...

When i think jump the shark I think Metallica and their lawsuit with napster ... that and the black album. They really segregated their fans with the Napster move and that left a bad taste in my mouth.

And I've always liked Savatages rock operas. Streets and Dead Winter Dead are some of their best work. It gave them a uniqueness that allowed them to stand out from the crowd. That and I love bands that stick to there guns and don't sell-out (shall I reference Metallica again).

10:13 AM  
Blogger bob_vinyl said...

Steven Novak is my new Heavy Meatl Time Machine hero! Finally, someone else who sees AC/DC for the complete crap that they are. They're just a glorified bar band. There are thousands of bands every bit as good as AC/DC playing small clubs every night who (deservingly) don't have a record deal, let alone multi-platinum sales! It was bad enough with Bon Scott, but then they replace him with the one person in the world that could actually make the band worse. And then the sell even more records. How does that happen? It's just another testement to our boneheaded consumer culture. Buy what you're told whether it's good or not.

11:11 PM  
Blogger Metal Mark said...

dpth-It's weird that Metallica started on this level of being down to earth. Yet later on they got caught up in being rock stars and being full of themselves.

Bob-AC/DC were a fun band at their peak and that goes a long way. You talk about lack of ability and being a glorified bar band. Were the Ramones or the Misfits any more talented? No, but they were simple and fun. You talked about AC/DC selling a lot of albums after hiring Brian Johnson and wandering why? In the very early 80's there was a huge resurgence in rock music because that's when hard rock and metal started getting big.

4:13 AM  
Blogger bob_vinyl said...

Both the Ramones and the Misfits wrote good songs. There wasn't a lot of technical talent, but the songs had good hooks. Plus, they actually were fun, unlike AC/DC who just unoriginal degenerates.

6:56 AM  
Blogger Metal Mark said...

bob-Oh, you are just sour. The Ramones and the Misfits were not any more original than AC/DC and I like all three for mainly the same reasons.

7:27 AM  
Anonymous Rhodeislandrock said...

Bob - I'll assume you're not a fan of Rose Tattoo either, LOL!

I'd say the Metallica jumped the shark, or dumped a Load. I could accept the "Black" album but the Loads were too much.

Definitely the Crue with Theatre Of Pain, even Dr. Feelgood couldn't touch the first two albums. Krokus jumped with The Blitz. Headhunter was a great album. Accept with Eat The Heat. Saxon with Innocence Is No Excuse.

KJR - Lick It Up and Animalize were pretty good albums, Asylum was slightly below them. Crazy Nights did them in when they tried to keep up with the Bon Jovis of the scene. Hot In The Shade was crap, I hate that album. Revenge was a fine return to form. I'd say KISS jumped the shark with the solo albums, after that fiasco they had a bad run: Dynasty, Unmasked, Elder but reclaimed glory with Creatures Of The Night.

Did I say enough about KISS?

12:42 PM  
Blogger Metal Mark said...

Steve-I can guarantee that Bob does not mind Rose Tatoo as much as AC/DC. He just likes to rant on AC/DC from time to time. He always has. Don't get him started on the Stones either.

I think Kiss jumped way back on Dynasty and if not then they sure did it on Unmasked.

12:50 PM  
Blogger Mike said...

I don't mind Load either, but their last great album in my opinion was Justice.

6:27 PM  
Blogger bob_vinyl said...

rhodeislandrock - I think I can stomach Rose Tattoo a little easier, because they've never been treated like a great band. The thing that gets under my skin about AC/DC is that they're so mediocre (not unlistenable), yet they're viewed as a really great band. It's the degree to which they're overrated. Rose Tattoo was okay and they had okay success, so I don't feel like they have to be taken down a peg or two. Mark is right, you can get me started about the Stones in the same way.

Amrk - If you like the same thing about the Misfits and Ramones as you do about AC/DC, I don't think you're listening. The Ramones in particular were masters of the early sixties pop hook. the songs are ones that anyone can play, but not anyone can write.

10:47 AM  

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