Influences and copycats
I remember when Kingdom Come's self-titled debut came out in 1988 and they started to get a pretty good push from Mtv, the metal magazines and the radio. Yet they were quickly branded as "Kingdom Clone" due to the fact that sounded a lot like Led Zeppelin. I think the band had trouble getting past that label and the little promise they had seemed to fade pretty quick. Rhinobucket released a very solid debut in 1990. Still it was so much like Bon Scott era AC/DC that this fact was mentioned in every review I remember. The band have done several albums since, but every mention of them always seems to include something like "AC/DC soundalikes" as a description.
Malice were a band I think had some promise when they first emerged from Oregan back in the mid-1980's. They signed to Atlantic records and their 1985 debut "In the beginning" is solid, but firmly founded in an early 1980's Judas Priest sound. Their 1987 follow-up "License to kill" is the same sort of sound and although competent they didn't grow beyond the Judas Priest sound. They lost their record deal shortly after that.
Every band has their influences and that's always been the nature of music. Some bands show their influences more than others. I think it's okay to have a strong influence on your debut. However if a band doesn't move beyond those influences or add more of themselves on the second album then they could be branded as a clone or a copycat. Once they get that brand it may be hard to come into their own. I think this happens more than I wish it did in hard rock and metal. I am sure it's not always easy to come with your own ideas, but bands should attempt to grow even if it's a struggle. Playing it safe and taking no risks doesn't help a band or a music scene to progress. Just some random thoughts I had on this idea.
**Feel free to share any thoughts you have on the topic.
posted by Metal Mark at
12:53 AM
11 Comments:
Good observations. So many bands borrow so much from others that it's unfair to single only some out.
Well, maybe not. Kingdom Come, just like "Still of the Night" Whitesnake, was Led Zep reconfigured ...
What it ccomes down to is that rock bands, to be considered truly great, must meet the same standard as the greatest classical composers: When you hear something by a great band, you should know that ONLY that group could have done it.
-- david
I must have accidently hit the no comments button on this post and it was probably that way for about seven hours. I apologize to anyone who saw that and could not comment.
I think Rhino Bucket's pretty happy to be compared to Bon Scott era AC/DC. In fact, I'm pretty sure Bon is Georg Dolivo's favorite singer.
http://bon-scott.org
There's a fine line sometimes between influenced and copied. Very few bands have been good without knowing their roots, yet no one has ever been important without doing their own thing. I think the key is in not trying to sound like your influences and letting them come out naturally as you create. Any band would be better for the time they spend listening to other bands, particularly a variety of different styles, but no band has ever gotten very good just by rehashing someone else.
Back in the 80's these bands got a lot of crap for their over done influences, but I was never one that dished out the negativity. I just enjoyed the music.
The Kingdom Come debut, is still a kick ass disc. Sure it Zepplinesque, but lets face it, Robert Plant wont do anything in this vein anymore, so you may as well enjoy it.
The Rhino Bucket debut was a kick ass effort as well. AC/DCish or not.
I can see the Judas Priest influence in Malice, and I thought that disc was a solid effort too.
Rob Rockitt
Hard Rock Hideout
www.hardrockhideout.com
I think that on the local scene, it helps in an odd way to sound like an established popular band even if you are playing your own stuff. Once you hit the big time you get ripped for it. But at least you get your face in Metal Edge and get laid a lot. LOL!
Have a good weekend!
I remember liking both Kingdome Come and Rhino Bucket back in the day. Never listened to Malice so I can't comment on that, but I think what made Kingdom Come stick out as copycats was their singer's defensive attitude in the press. I remember him making some dumb comment like "I've never heard a Led Zeppelin song in my life." Rhino Bucket always seemed to embrace the comparisons and I think that helped them get more critical respect than Kingdome Come. Which is sad because their second disc was pretty good and it began to move away from the Zeppelin sound.
Yeah, I agree with you Metal Mark. There are a lot of "clones". They might sound a little like someone else, but it doesn't mean that they didn't rock! I don't like the term "clone band". Because, even if they do sound like someone else, people should be able to listen to it and tell the difference!I am a fan of Kingdom Come, Rhino Buckett, and Malice!
You made some very good points though Metal Mark. Nice work...
David-You're last point is a good one.
anonymous-I think Rhinobucket are content with that now. Yet I wonder if they have any regrets about not taking more chances in the early 90's when they could have carved out their own niche?
bob-Influences are great because you need a beginning, but there needs to be some type of growth or you become stagnant.
HRH-The problem isn't just about being good or not, but maybe about being as good as you can be. Sometimes I might listen to one of these bands, but if it's too mcuh like the original band then I might stop and go listen to the original band instead.
rockdog-I agree as many bands started out playing a lot of covers when they were playing clubs.
ray gillen-Kingdom Come were very quickly pushed into the limelight and they got a lot of flack. Rhinobucket at their peak were kind of underground anyhow.
axe man-Some of these bands rocked, but I guess as a fan I always try to get as much as I cna froma band. It's frustrating to see a band be content with being a copy.
You really know your stuff Mark. It's very impressive.
hard rock hideout - You're right that Robert Plant won't be rehashing the Zeppelin stuff, but his last two solo albums (Dreamland and Mighty Rearranger) are incredibly true to Zeppelin in spirit even though they're so different in sound. He captured Zeppelin's intangibles and used that in something completely new. I'd rather listen to that than someone playing a watered down copy of Zeppelin.
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